Richard Dawkins: 'Somebody as intelligent as Jesus would have been an atheist'.
Jesus was intelligent.
But belief in God is not determined by intelligence. It's more culturally determined.
I believe compassion and forgiveness were his messages anyway.
I don't think his message was insistence upon belief in God.
God nowadays is more like Einstein's pantheist God of "cosmic religious feeling".
L.Ron Dow:
It can't be proved that Jesus lived (although I am not a mythicist) let alone
his intelligence be determined.
But your next two sentences are in agreement with Dawkin's view - the title of
this video is the work of a Guardian editor
- it is click-bait. Dawkins did utter those words (13 mins into the 30 minute
podcast of the full interview) but the the second half of the sentence was
"had he known what we know today."
In other words, Dawkins was linking lack of 'god-belief' with 'knowledge',
not 'intelligence'.
If you know what causes thunder, why would you continue
believing that it wsa caused by Thor's hammer? Dawkins does credit Jesus with
having enough intelligence (by virtue of being a leader with his own posse)
to understand the ramifications of what we now know about cosmogony,
abiogenesis & evolution.
The Jesus of the Bible very much insists upon god-belief - and belief that
he was very much the only route to god - just check John 3.18: "Whoever
believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands
condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's
one and only Son." Your compassion & forgiveness are regarded only as
evidence of your god-belief - they are not enough in themselves,
they're as 'dirty rags', to get you into heaven.
You are right about Spinoza's god - today, with the church having lost its real power
to make people's lives a misery if they don't 'toe the line' and stick to doctrine,
everyone is more free to project their own thoughts of 'spirituality' into the void
(SPAG - Self-Projection As God.) There does seem to be a 'god-shaped' slot in
people's psyche - it would be interesting to know why
(I suspect it's part of being social animals who, as a community, thrive when they
'revere' authority.)
-------------------------
I absolutely believe in God but don't insist upon belief in God.
Compassion and forgiveness need to become the markers of Christianity,
and not dogmatic belief.
I think there is more to belief in God than it merely being a part of our
being social animals.
But - whatever the origin of the concept of God - and I don't think it is a
natural or inherent concept - I don't think belief in God should be essential
or compulsory for a Christian. Not anymore anyway.
"Christian Atheism" dates from the 1960s apparently.
Jesus was intelligent.
But belief in God is not determined by intelligence. It's more culturally determined.
I believe compassion and forgiveness were his messages anyway.
I don't think his message was insistence upon belief in God.
God nowadays is more like Einstein's pantheist God of "cosmic religious feeling".
L.Ron Dow:
It can't be proved that Jesus lived (although I am not a mythicist) let alone
his intelligence be determined.
But your next two sentences are in agreement with Dawkin's view - the title of
this video is the work of a Guardian editor
- it is click-bait. Dawkins did utter those words (13 mins into the 30 minute
podcast of the full interview) but the the second half of the sentence was
"had he known what we know today."
In other words, Dawkins was linking lack of 'god-belief' with 'knowledge',
not 'intelligence'.
If you know what causes thunder, why would you continue
believing that it wsa caused by Thor's hammer? Dawkins does credit Jesus with
having enough intelligence (by virtue of being a leader with his own posse)
to understand the ramifications of what we now know about cosmogony,
abiogenesis & evolution.
The Jesus of the Bible very much insists upon god-belief - and belief that
he was very much the only route to god - just check John 3.18: "Whoever
believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands
condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's
one and only Son." Your compassion & forgiveness are regarded only as
evidence of your god-belief - they are not enough in themselves,
they're as 'dirty rags', to get you into heaven.
You are right about Spinoza's god - today, with the church having lost its real power
to make people's lives a misery if they don't 'toe the line' and stick to doctrine,
everyone is more free to project their own thoughts of 'spirituality' into the void
(SPAG - Self-Projection As God.) There does seem to be a 'god-shaped' slot in
people's psyche - it would be interesting to know why
(I suspect it's part of being social animals who, as a community, thrive when they
'revere' authority.)
-------------------------
I absolutely believe in God but don't insist upon belief in God.
Compassion and forgiveness need to become the markers of Christianity,
and not dogmatic belief.
I think there is more to belief in God than it merely being a part of our
being social animals.
But - whatever the origin of the concept of God - and I don't think it is a
natural or inherent concept - I don't think belief in God should be essential
or compulsory for a Christian. Not anymore anyway.
"Christian Atheism" dates from the 1960s apparently.